你们是在非法集会 This is an illegal gathering.
马上解散 you must disperse immediately.
低头 Stay down.
通过 Pass.
你为什么来索韦托? you're in Soweto. Why?.
因为我姐姐住在第三区 My sister lives in District Three.
车后面是什么? What's in the back?.
家俱 Furniture.
Wait.
好了，可以了 Okay, it's fine.
他当时正和自己的父亲和姐姐搬运木料 He was out collecting wood with his father and his sister.
警察不知道从哪里冒了出来，把我们弄到桥上 The Police came out of nowhere and grabbed us and took us to the bridge.
他们把我父亲装进帆布袋子里 They took my dad and tied him in a canvas bag...
然后扔进河里 and dropped him into the river.
他们强迫我们观看了整个过程 They made us watch him drown.
他们让我们回家告诉别人说这就是参与南非国民大会的下场 They told us to go home and tell the others the price for being ANC.
有一个词 We have a word...
叫作'乌邦图' buntu'.
是指一个人的人性 It means a person's humanity...
是由他和别人的关系决定的 is measured according to their relationship with others.
我们告诉孩子们，那些犯下如此罪行的人们 We tell the children that these people, who commit these crimes...
已经丧失了他们的人性 have lost their humanity...
我们都是种族隔离的受害者 and are as much victims of Apartheid as we are.
他妈的他是谁? Who the hell is he?.
他是我的一个朋友，我可以为他担保 He's a friend I can vouch for him.
他来自联合金矿公司 是来帮忙的 He's here to help. He's from Consolidated Goldfields.
他来是要跟我们谈办学项目的投资事宜的 To talk about fund raising for our schools programme.
我们不指望他帮忙 We didn't ask for his hand-outs.
-别动他·离他远点 -我是迈克、杨 - Leave him be!. Let him be!. - Michael young.
先生? Sir?.
滚，滚，滚 Go, go, go!.
-我是迈克·杨·-进展的怎么样了? - It's Michael young. - What progress?.
对我们来说没有效果·我们定位要更高 This isn't going to work for us. We need to aim higher.
山脚下会更安全 Safer to stay in the foothills.
我们看到的越多，就会更危险 The more visible, the more vulnerable we are.
是的，确实要安全一些·当然 yes, it's much safer. yes.
请安静 A bit of hush.
我很荣幸的向大家介绍塔布·贝提先生 It is my pleasure to present Thabo Mbeki.
南非国民大会信息委员会主席 The African National Congress' Head of lnformation...
他此行是代表南非国民代表大会主席，奥利弗，塔布先生 who is here representing the ANC president, Oliver Tambo.
让我们欢迎贝提先生的到来 I know that you'll make Mr Mbeki feel most welcome.
我是塔布，贝提· My name is Thabo Mbeki...
同时我还是一个恐怖分子 and I am a terrorist.
大家都这样讲，就毋庸置疑了 No doubt, that is what you have been told.
我没有引爆装置 No incendiary devices.
也没有藏武器 No concealed weapons.
我只是和你们一样，普普通通的一个人而已 I am just a man, as you are.
南非政府的总统 Every day the President of South Africa...
每一天都把自己的国民弄得神经兮兮 under the mantle of his State of Emergency...
他在各个城镇上部署了成千的部队 deploys thousands more of his troops in the townships...
对阻碍他隔离政策的人进行残酷的打压 brutally crushing the rising resistance to his oppressive regime.
然而，英国，仍旧是南非的头号贸易伙伴 yet, the UK, is still one of South Africa's leading trading partners.
每一个公司 Every company...
每一个继续在这里投资的金融机构‥ every financial institution which continues to invest there...
都是PW.博萨 政治实力和经济实力的来源 is a source of political and economic strength to P.W. Botha.
如果说有钱能使鬼推磨，那么就让他使劲推吧 If it is true that money talks, then let it speak, clearly.
当我们说我们的人民不应再流血的时候，请积极响应我们 Let your voice join ours when we say the bloodshed of our people must end.
对他们说不的时刻到了 The time to shout nough' has come.
你们行动的时刻到了 The time for you to act is here.
贝提先生 Mr Mbeki?.
我是迈克，杨 Michael young.
公共事务科经理，联合金矿公司 Public Affairs Director, Consolidated Goldfields.
我们能做些什么呢？ Tell me how we can help.
这可不是一句话的事情，杨先生·这会让你吃不消的 It's not an offer to make lightly, Mr young. We might take you up on it.
这确实很难 It wasn't made lightly.
就像你说的，贵国的生存对我们来说也不无稗益 As you say, we too have an incentive to ensure your country's survival.
我们反反覆覆地做著这个恶梦，杨先生 We have this recurring nightmare, Mr young...
有一天非洲政府会给我们信息 that one day the South African Government will send us a message...
暗示我们可以终止种族隔离 indicating that it is ready to talk to us about ending apartheid.
而由于我们的敌对和不信任，我们没有听到诸如此类的消息 Because of our antagonism and mistrust, we fail to hear the message.
我们也没有回应 We fail to respond.
错过了时机 We miss the moment.
Thank you.
那个人真的为矿业公司工作? An apparatchik working for a reactionary outfit like Goldfields?.
这事就这么简单? Is that what it's come to?.
他说他为矿业公司工作，就意味著他背后有人 The fact that he works for Goldfields means he'll be listened to.
你还有更好的介入方法? you know a better entry card?.
如果说这家伙只是一个幌子呢? And if the Public Affairs thing is just a front?.
我怀疑他是军情六处的 I doubt he's M l6.
我要谈谈 I need a word.
他在等你 He's expecting you.
进来吧 Come in.
我想我应该有解决问题的方法 I think I have a way forward on our problem.
我洗耳恭听 I'm listening.
维安先生? Mr Vijoan?.
我是迈克、杨·我上周就会议事宜给您打过电话 It's Michael young. I called last week about the meetings...
我正试图在南非国民大会和南非现任政府之间建立和关系 I'm trying to set up between the ANC and leading Afrikaners.
这太冒险了 The risk is too great.
我还有家小要考虑 I have a young family to think of.
请不要再给我打电话了 Please don't call me again.
只是探索性的会议 They're just exploratory meetings...
我们希望荷兰改革教堂 and someone representing the Dutch Reform Church...
最好能扮演调和者的角色? who better to act as a mediator between the two sides?.
我们教堂从不涉足任何政治事件 It's not the policy of our church to involve ourselves in politics.
我帮不了你·很抱歉 I can't help you. I am sorry.
两边都有不愿意和谈的强硬派 There are those on both sides who favour force over dialogue.
为了保密，我们最好·在英国举行和谈 To maintain secrecy, it's best if we hold the talks in the U. K.
在南非没有秘密可言 In South Africa secrets are a way of life.
他们还有惹事生非的习惯 They also have a habit of exploding in your face.
我不能再被打扰了·抱歉 I can't be bothered. I'm sorry.
-能借用一下厕所么?-当然，就在后面 - Can I use your toilet?. - yeah, it's around the back.
爱的惯性把我们推向哲学的臂弯 Love has a habit of pushing us into the arms of philosophy.
一场地震可以夺走上千人的生命 An earthquake claims a thousand lives.
侵略者可以让人家破人亡 Families bludgeoned to death by intruders.
甚至夺走最爱的孩子 The death of a much loved child.
这些事情无不驱使我们去责问慈爱的神灵，怎么会让 Such events prompt us to ask how a benign deity can allow...
这样的悲剧发生 such tragedies to happen.
哲学的任务就是使人从平淡混乱的生活中升华 The task of Philosophy is to rise above the futility and chaos of daily life...
去找寻更深层次的自我 to seek a deeper truth to our existence.
让我来以帕斯卡的话来作为结语 I'll finish with the words of Pascal.
'若人类的尊严基于思索 f man's dignity lies in thought...
那就让我们努力认真的去思索吧' then let us all strive to think well.'
再见 Good day.
注意了 Be warned!
那些没有交国家与自由那份作业的同学 Those who have not yet handed in their assignment on Freedom and the State...
会失去自由的 will find their own freedom curtailed.
格鲁伯先生，饶了我吧 Mr Gruber, make my day.
换个新的打印机色带 Treat yourself to a new typewriter ribbon.
您就是杨先生吧? Mr young, I assume?.
你接手的是一个很大胆的任务 An audacious mission you've undertaken.
更确切的说，是一个不可能完成的任务 A mission impossible, might be more apt.
而你所请求的也是不可能的 What you are asking is impossible.
没有哪个疯子会把自己的生活，更不用说自己的生命 No sane man would put his livelihood, not to mention his life...
拿去做与虎谋皮的事情 on the line to break bread with the devil.
在这个国家，那些公开反对种族隔离的人 In this country, those who go public against Apartheid...
都被流放了 acquire the status of a pariah.
都被流放了
可是，你为什么还答应要和我见面呢? yet, you still agreed to meet with me?.
你说联合矿业公司答应出资赞助这些会议? you say Consolidated Goldfields have agreed to fund these meetings?.
你们的老板是在自取灭亡 your founder would turn in his grave.
洛德斯明白政治力量失败的地方，也是经济力量复苏的机会 Rhodes knew that market forces can succeed where politicians fail.
你们真是虚伪 you are being disingenuous.
你们只是想要保证自己在这里的投资而已，不是么? This is about your company protecting it's investments here, is it not?.
他们知道隔离不管从道德上还是经济上都是说不过去的 They know apartheid is an anathema morally and economically.
他们已经实施很久了 They've colluded with it long enough.
而国家内部悄然酝酿著一场政变，这个己经众所周知 It's an open secret that a silent coup has taken place in our country.
博萨不再询问议会和内阁的意见 Botha no longer consults Parliament or the cabinet...
而是像一个中世纪的君主一样进行统治 but rules in the manner of a medieval monarch.
他只听自己安全顾问的话 Only his inner sanctum of security advisors have his ear.
而那些人就是掌管权利的人，而他们 It's they who wield the power, and they are not interested...
对于寻求政治问题的解决毫无兴趣 in a political solution.
就像很多南非白人一样，我觉得 Like most Afrikaners, I find...
南非国民大会的行事方式很让人反感 the murderous methodology of the ANC morally repugnant...
即使想对他们好点都很困难 and the idea of cosying up to them is abhorrent...
-想就让我作呕 even the thought makes me retch.
很抱歉像要无功而返了 I'm sorry that you had a wasted journey.
我不是你要找的人 I am not the man for your mission.
Get on the move.
如果您没有其他事宜的话，曼德拉先生 If you are not otherwise engaged, Mr Mandela...
司法部长邀请您喝茶 the Minister of Justice invites you to join him for tea.
据说这次吃的是黄瓜三明治 I'm told it's cucumber sandwiches this time.
好像还有其他访害 It seems you have another visitor, too.
国家情报局的局长，是少不了的 The Head of National lntelligence, no less.
博纳德博士在这里? Doctor Barnard is here?.
稍等一下，布兰德先生 A moment if you please, Mr Brand.
重复，总部 Copy, control.
谢谢你 Thank you.
总部，确认主犯已经带到 Control. Confirm subject's arrival.
克德西先生·很高兴再次看到你 Mr Coatsee. Good to see you again.
我也是，曼德拉先生 Good to see you too, Mr Mandela.
内尔，博纳德博士在这里，他是国家情报局的局长 Doctor Neil Barnard is here, Head of National lntelligence.
他请求参与我们的谈话 He's asked to sit in on our discussions.
尼尔森、曼德拉先生·这是内尔，博纳德博士 Mr Nelson Mandela. Doctor Neil Barnard.
我等这个机会已经很久了，博士先生 I've waited a long time for this opportunity, Doctor.
我也一样，先生 Likewise, sir.
使用催泪瓦斯驱散人群 ... used tear gas to disperse the crowd...
被安全部队的发言人称为 in what a security forces spokesperson described as...
打击暴力的必要措施 ecessary measures to contain the violence'.
而且，当 AWB 恐怖组织进行招募宣传时 And, there were further arrests when Eugene Terre'Blanche's AWB party...
又进行了逮捕行动，四人被扣押 held a recruitment rally, four people were detained.
如果他们想要用武力和暴力掌管这个国家 If they want to take this country by force and violence...
那我们就直接用枪杆子对付他们 they'll meet us over the barrel of a gun.
A! W! B! A! W! B!
迈克·杨 Michael young.
我不能眼睁睁地看著我的国家走向覆灭 I cannot stand by and do nothing while my country is reduced to ashes.
我会参加你们的会议 I'll come to your meeting.
告诉我时间和地点 Let me know where and when.
博纳德博士来了，总统先生 Doctor Barnard, Mr President.
-他上钩了么?-否定了他的命运? - Did he take the bait?. - And deny his moment of destiny?.
-他觉得没问题·-虚荣心啊·‥虚荣心 - He took it alright. - Vanity... vanity.
塔布正在等你 Tambo's waiting to see you.
奥利弗·也许这些和谈正是我们期盼已久的机会 Oliver, maybe these talks are the opportunity we've been waiting for.
是的·但未必每个人都会喜欢 yes, but not everyone is going to like it.
很多人会把这当作反叛 Many will see this as a betrayal.
所以，只有你知我知，你要直接向我报告 So, we need to keep this between us, and report back only to me.
万事小心，塔布 Be careful, Thabo.
我们决定参加 We're in.
做一些日常的记录 Some housekeeping notes.
不要再电话联系南非国民大会 No telephone communication with the ANC either...
不管是在卢萨卡还是在伦敦 in Lusaka or here in London.
南非安全局已经监听了我们的电话·你的也是，到目前为止 South African lntelligence have our phones tapped. yours too, by now.
不要以为你回到伦敦就没有后顾之忧了 Don't think because you're back in London you're not vulnerable.
汽车和信件炸弹是他们常用的武器 Car and letter bombs are the weapons of choice of the security agents.
欢迎来到我们的世界 Welcome to our world.
当我们跳到床上时床板不停的摇晃 The board get wind we're jumping into bed...
一群拿著AK步枪的恐怖分子 with a bunch of Kalashnikov carrying terrorists...
会计我们头破血流·明白吗? we'll both be out on our ears. you realise that?.
他们不能否认事实 They can't ignore reality.
博萨越是一天孤立，国家越是混乱 Every day Botha gets more isolated, the country more ungovernable.
若无援助，公司很快会衰落的 Something doesn't give, and soon the company will go down with it.
你觉得自已在这里面扮演的角色是什么? you see your role in this as what?.
建立一个中立的平台然后站到旁边 To create a neutral arena and step aside.
希望他们可以彼此平等对待，而非敌对姿态 Hope that they can see each other as men, rather than as enemies.
这个策略很冒险 A risky strategy.
其他更冒险 Others are risking more than that.
华丽的词藻不会计股东们安心 Heroics don't cut much ice with shareholders.
只有 深入了解原则·但是，不能相信任何人 A eed to know' basis. Only. Trust no-one. Confide in no-one.
我会为这个策略的研究和开发买单，或者其他事项也可以 I'll bury the costs under Research and Development, or some such.
如果我有什么意外的话，这些是我个人资料 Arrangements for my personal affairs should anything happen to me.
-你觉得那有可能么?-有备无患 - you think that's likely?. - A precaution.
迈克? Michael?.
如果泄露出去了 If this ever gets out...
我会拒绝承认此事，否认你的存在 I shall have to deny all knowledge of it and, disown you.
同时，如果事情没有成功，我什么也得不到 And, I'll be nothing, if not convincing.
护照带了没有?机票呢? Passport?. Ticket?.
坐出租车走 Taxi.
It's okay.
教授 Professor.
来得正是时候吧 In the nick of time.
我能进来吗? May I come in?.
对外，博萨依然会坚持原有路线 In public, Botha's still holding the party line...
就是必须先打败恐怖分子然后再和谈 that you must defeat terrorists before you can negotiate with them.
而对内·他希望你能尽可能长的延续这个会议 Privately, he wants you to continue the dialogue for as long as possible.
我们对南非国民大会的机构弱点了解得更多 The more we know about the ANC's fault lines in their power structure...
我们就能更充分地准备掌控这场游戏的结果 the better we are equipped to control the end game.
这么说来，我要去当你们的间谍了? So, I am to act as your spy?.
你要做的不只是一个线人 A go between is more what we had in mind.
你有没有想过为什么要让你去带动和谈，教授先生? Have you thought why you were chosen to lead these talks, Professor?.
因为你是一个软目标 you're a soft target.
他们觉得你主张公平的名声· They think your reputation as an advocate for social justice...
可以给他们加入的机会 gives them a way in.
参与合作 Play along.
贝提肯定会认为你只是一个 Mbeki must think you are just a...
调查团里面一个受尊敬的学者而已 respected academic on a fact-finding mission.
软目标可不是一个软柿子，博士 A soft target is not a soft touch, Doctor.
我去参加这个会议是去倾听他们的想法 I'm going to that meeting to hear what they have to say.
同等重要的是，我还有自己的想法 As importantly for them to hear what I have to say.
不然整个会议就是徒劳 The whole process is futile otherwise.
对，可是事实是，你也知道，教授 Ja, but the thing is, you see, Professor.
你如果不合作的话 you don't co-operate...
你就无法参与这个活动 your participation in the process will be terminated.
我的直线电话·打结我 My direct line. Call me.
你从现在开始要小心炸弹了 you need to be vigilant about incendiary devices now.
开车之前要检查一下 Always check under your car before using it.
我会派人过来做给你看 I'll send my people over to show you how.
你的票? And your ticket?.
不要忘了给阿尔比、塞池打电话 Don't forget to ring Albi Sachs.
你好? Hello?.
我是塔布，贝提·我有话要说 This is Thabo Mbeki. I need a quick word.
他刚出发去机场了·我去拦住他，等等 He's just left for the airport. I'll try and catch him, hold on.
阿尔比 Albi!
-换条线·-请接另外一条线 - Get another line. - Another line, please!
对全体人员进行背景考核·他们不知道安全问题很重要吗？ Background checks on staff. And they know that security is an issue?.
我今早简要的给他们讲了 I briefed them this morning.
每天早晨都要给他们强调·要有自我防范意识 Brief them every morning. Just keep hammering it home.
-这个是蒙贝提先生的房间 -是, 贝提先生 - This is Mr Mambenki's room. - Mbeki.
-所有的房间都是套间·-很好 - All the rooms are ensuite. - It's nice.
-那么，隔壁呢?-他的同事，那个·帕哈德先生 - And, next door?. - His colleague. Mr... Pahad.
把爱斯特海泽教授安排到贝提隔壁 Put Professor Esterhuyse next to Mbeki.
我们需要把把们混在一起·使他们见面的几率最大 We need to mix them up. Maximise the opportunity for chance meetings.
-没错·-很好·谢谢你 - Right. - Good. Thank you.
欢迎这个词现在己经不足以表达我们的感受 elcome' seems a meagre word for such an occasion.
但是，诚意丝毫不会少，一如既往 But, it is no less sincere, all the same.
现在，您看到我草拟的议程上 Now, as you can see from the agenda I drew up...
我们有很多方面需要讨论 we have a lot of ground to cover.
因此，如果我们能达成一致，我认为必须 So, if we're to get through it I think it is essential that...
恕我直言，杨先生 With respect, Mr young.
因为您不是南非人，所以这不是您的议程 Since you are not South African, it's not your agenda.
而是我们的 It's ours.
不过，恕我直言，贝提先生 And, with respect, Mr Mbeki...
我必须提醒您这个议程是双发预先都同意的 I must remind you that the agenda was agreed by both sides in advance.
第一条·南非国民大会远景 Item one. The ANC perspective.
我们知道你们南非白人曾为你们的国家付出过血的代价 We know that you Afrikaners have paid in blood for your country.
就像我们一样 As, we have.
我们也知道·是出于你们一手策划 We know too, that it was from your suffering...
一个种族隔离制度正在孕育而生 that a system of apartheid was incubated.
这样做通常是为了生存 The need to dominate is often a consequence of survival.
我们的问题是，作为流放者，我们 Our problem is, as exiles, we are...
被孤立在政坛之外 outside the political system.
因此，我们不打算在任何和政府的谈判中 So, we are not in a position to offer any concessions or compromises...
作任何的妥协和让步 in any potential negotiations with the government.
如果您不能让步，那您能做什么? If you can't offer concessions, what can you offer?.
我们唯一能做的就是一-列举我们的要求 All we can do is set out our stall of demands.
释放尼尔森，曼德拉还有所有的政治罪犯 The release of Nelson Mandela and all political prisoners.
允许一切不受法律保护的政治组织存在 The unbanning of all proscribed political organisations.
只有那样才能协商出能让大多数人满意的过渡计划 Only then can a negotiated transition to majority rule take place.
这样的话，那么，我们是不是可以认为 So, then, we can take it that there is no truth in the rumour...
关于南非国民大会希望曼德拉死于狱中的传言纯属谣言 that the ANC hopes Mandela will die in prison?.
这样的话他就成为烈士了 Thus elevating him to the status of martyr.
您不认为他已经是烈士吗? you don't think he's achieved that status already?.
那个传言，关于我们的大多数信息 That rumour, along with most information about us...
都是不可信的 is based on disinformation.
也包括如果释放他而造成的骚乱流血事件吗？ And, the riots and bloodshed if he does get released?.
您能确保控制好那些激进的游击队员吗? Can you guarantee you can control your guerrilla extremists?.
从控制好曼德拉太太和她项链火刑开始 Controlling Mrs Mandela and her necklacing would be a start.
只要您能控制好您那些野蛮的治安警卫 As would controlling the brutality of your security police.
您能确保这个吗? Can you guarantee that?.
在普丽托利雅(南非首都)有人说博萨正在考虑 There's talk in Pretoria that Botha is considering...
建立一个新的组织合并到议会 forming a new body to be affiliated to Parliament...
这个组织里黑人能和有色人种还有印度人一起作为代表 where black representatives can join the coloured and lndian delegates...
作为势力瓜分的先奏 as a prelude to power sharing.
我们能问问您对于这个提议的看法吗? Can we ask your opinion on such a proposal?.
您的看法? What is yours?.
我来仅仅是为了了解真相，贝提先生 I'm just here on a fact-finding mission, Mr Mbeki.
您的意见才是问题关键 your opinion is the issue.
我的理解是我们不是来这讨论改革种族隔离制度的 My understanding is we are not here to discuss reforming Apartheid.
或者 把它隐藏在一个新的政治格局里 Or, disguising it under some new administrative structure.
我们此行是想彻底废除它 We're here to talk about how to abolish it.
我们共同寻求的是，一个能让大多数人满意的条款 What we are seeking, is a prelude to majority rule.
势力瓜分，提都不要提 Power sharing, is not an option.
啊，教授 Ah, Professor.
行了·很好，很好·先生们，先停一下，很好 Okay. Good, good. Gentlemen, please. Good.
也许你们该列出一些 Perhaps, if you outline the specific nature of your fears...
大众条款中你们自己的顾虑 relating to majority rule.
这可不是为科学献身 It's not bloody rocket science.
黑人会踩著我们血迹而过 The blacks come after our blood,
我们的孩子们会被扼杀在摇篮中·这，就是现实 and our children get slaughtered in their beds. That, is the reality.
一个倾向子共产主义的组织会让我们的经济陷入混乱 A communist leaning administration will destroy our economic stability.
他们最终会计这里再度如殖民地般混乱 They'll end up in the same post colonial chaos...
就像非洲其他地区一样 as the other African states.
教授? Professor?.
你们不仅会抹去我们的语言和文化，还会剥夺我们的人身 you'll obliterate not only our language and our culture, but our human rights.
让人害怕是压迫者的首选武器 Fear is the first weapon of the oppressor.
它让我们完全看不到其他人的人性所在 It blinds us all from seeing the humanity of the other.
您也不是两袖清风，贝提先生 your hands are not so clean either, Mr Mbeki.
您的恐怖活动不是基于害怕是基于什么? What is your campaign of terror based on if not fear?.
害怕的氛围不是我们营造的，教授 The culture of fear is not of our making, Professor.
我们只不过从主人那里学了一点皮毛 We learnt it at the feet of our masters.
您看起来很案了，曼德拉先生·我们又聊到这么晚 you're looking tired, Mr Mandela. We've kept you talking too late again.
还好，我今晚没其他计划 Fortunately, I had no other plans tonight.
期待我们的下次交谈，博士 I look forward to our next conversation, Doctor.
曾有一刻我觉得您在说，协商 For a moment I thought you said, egotiation'.
我耳朵有点幻听了 My ear's playing tricks on me.
晚安，博士 Good night, Doctor.
-克德西先生·-晚安 - Mr. Coatsee. - Good night.
掐断他和其他所有罗本岛人(南非沿海岛屿)的联络 Stop all contact with the other Robben lslanders.
我不希望他们叽叽喳喳影响到他 We don't need their Greek Chorus in his ear.
好的 Alright.
下次给他套正式点的衣服穿 And get him a suit for next time.
如果他觉得和我们平等，就会告诉我们更多 We'll get more out of him if he thinks he's an equal.
好的·好主意 Okay. It's a good idea.
这里先交给你了 I'll leave you to it.
我是想我们的时间精力不用都耗在一个流放的总统身上 I just think things might free up a bit without an outsider present.
厌烦与我们在一起了? Bored with us already?.
多么高明的回避 It's a tactical withdrawal.
So, Professor.
您第一次看到我的时候，是不是在想 When you first saw me, did you think...
啊，这就是该死的，共产主义恐怖分子的样子？ h, so that's what a fucking, communist terrorist looks like'?.
那么，您呢?您是不是在想 And, you?. Did you think...
啊，这就是该死的，种族歧视的波尔人的样子？ h, so that's what a fucking racist Boer looks like'?.
毫无疑问，你们认为我们声称不搞种族分化 No doubt, you assume our claim to be non-racial...
只是为了政治上的方便 编造的一些冠冕弹簧的说辞 但你们错了 is just a rhetoric of political convenience, but you are mistaken.
这是我们的生存之本 It's what defines us.
您也把我们想错了，贝提先生 And you are mistaken in your assumptions about us, Mr Mbeki.
我们的恐惧不是源于一些你们的恐怖宣言 Our fear doesn't stem from propaganda...
而是源于扎根在内心深处的声音，显示著总有一天 but from the deep rooted knowledge that one day we will be punished...
我们会因犯下的重大错误而受到惩罚 for all the terrible wrongs we have inflicted.
晚安，教授 Good night, Professor.
晚安 Goodnight.
谁? Hello?.
教授? Professor?.
有什么需要? Can I help you?.
杨先生跟我保证过这片区域没有摄像头 young gave his assurance the place was clean of bugs.
我可不敢冒险 I couldn't take the chance.
上帝保佑，我不会后悔这样做 I hope to God, you don't make me regret what I'm about to do.
博萨对新闻界和议会都宣称 To the press and parliament, Botha's still on message that...
在他跟你谈话前你必须解除所有武装 you must abandon your weapons before he'll conduct a dialogue with you.
但是，现在我建议你别那样 But, my presence here suggests otherwise.
博萨知道我们的谈话吗? Botha knows about these talks?.
我本来是要通过国家情报局的博纳德博士 I'm instructed to report back to him via Doctor Barnard...
向他汇报的 in National lntelligence.
我就要成为他们的特洛伊木马了 I'm to be their Trojan horse.
您在冒很大风险跟我说这些，教授 you take a risk telling me this, Professor.
不跟你说才是在冒险 It would be a risk not telling you.
互相信任，才能成事 Without trust, we'll achieve nothing.
塔布说过，如果我们 Tambo says if we are to...
要赢回自由，我们必须首先 win our freedom we must first...
放下怨恨 banish bitterness.
现在就是考验这句话的时候了 This will be the test of it.
对我们大家 For all of us.
让他准备好 Get him ready.
让他体昧一下失去很久的东西 Let's give him a taste of what he's been missing.
转过来一下 If you could just turn around.
-好的·还行吧?-是啊 - Okay. It's good?. - Ja.
这么多年我都忘记该怎么系鞋带了 I've lost the knack of tying them over the years.
行了，我们出发? Well, shall we?.
我来接·我来接 Got it. I've got it.
博纳德 Barnard.
他对自由的一天还满意吧? Did he enjoy his day of freedom?.
体味一下而言应该足够，但愿吧 Enough to get a taste for it, let's hope.
-英国那边怎么说?-进展中 - And the UK talks?. - Work in progress.
这些还不足以让我抚慰内阁中的嗜杀分子 I need more than that to placate the bloody doves in Cabinet.
长官，这件事千万不能让内阁知道 Sir, the Cabinet must know absolutely nothing about this.
如果有人向美国有线新闻网松口 那我们整个计划就功亏一篑了 If some loose lips blabs to CNN the whole process could implode on us.
是你透露了这些谈话的内容才混进南非国民大会 you sold me these talks to get the inside track on the ANC.
以方便我们控制曼德拉 To give us leverage over Mandela.
如果你没打算汇报这些·那还他妈有什么意义? If you're not going to deliver. What's the damn point?.
我确实在这见过他的原话 I have his exact words here somewhere.
让我们单独聊会 Leave us.
我得回家了，博士 I do have a home to go to, Doctor.
或许你认为我受骗了或是太天真，但我还得说 At the risk of invoking more accusations that I'm gullible and naive, I repeat...
在我看来，贝提，政府是能和他谈判的 In my view, Mbeki, is a man the government can do business with.
你这是基于什么观点? A view based on what?.
火炉边的调侃? your cosy fireside chats?.
他把政治选举搞得乌烟瘴气? His existential ramblings about universal suffrage?.
一个人可以尊重别人对理想的承诺 One can respect a man's commitment to his ideals...
只不过他没有与人分享他是如何受到尊重的 without sharing his methods of achieving them.
原谅我，为我没有在他的独裁政府前下跪 Forgive me, if I don't also genuflect at his altar of self government.
谈话很容易，教授 Talk is cheap, Professor.
他没让步，是吧 一点也没有 He made no concessions, did he?. Not one.
他在谈话中表现的温和完全是在耍手段，与塔布遥相呼应 His so called conversion to moderation is a ploy, orchestrated by Tambo.
而你 And you...
你买他的账 you fell for it.
-我可以回家了吗? -还不行 - Can I go home?. - Not yet.
曼德拉让他的律师传话给我了 Mandela sent his lawyer with a message for me.
他们把他和西斯鲁还有其他罗本岛人隔离了 They've isolated him from Sisulu and the other Robben lslanders.
他一直在和国家情报局的博纳德博士秘密会谈 He's been holding secret talks with Doctor Barnard from the N. I.S....
那人是直接向博萨报告的 who reports back to Botha.
我一再逼问必索斯他才告诉我会议的内容 I pressed Bizoz on the content of the meetings.
他声称尼尔森什么也没交代 He claims Nelson said nothing.
他极力说服我他的所为是出于好意 He wanted to assure me he's acting in good faith.
他正在走进一个陷耕 He's walking into a trap.
博萨知道英国的谈话 Botha knows about the U. K. talks.
伯纳德招募了爱斯特海泽当他的线人 Barnard recruited Esterhuyse to act as his informer.
他们在玩分而治之 的把戏 They're playing ivide and rule' with us.
朋托亚会声称南非最有知各度的犯人 Pretoria will claim that South Africa's most famous prisoner...
想要和平地解决问题，但是南非国民大会的恐怖分子 wanted a peaceful settlement but the ANC terrorists...
为了坚持他们的暴力的信仰拒绝了 rejected it to pursue their doctrine of violence.
蒙迪巴不可能这么容易上当的 Madiba would never fall for such a trick.
我们怎么知道他是怎么想的? How do we know what his mental state is?.
我们怎么知道他的压力有多大? The pressure he's under?.
为了他的自由他会做出什么让步? What concessions he'll make in return for his freedom?.
如果他忠于我们为什么不告诉我们他的行动计划? If he's so solid with us why not tell us what he's doing?.
为什么把你和我们其他人排斥在外 Why exclude you, of all people.
这个叫里斯特海泽的，能信任吗? This Esterhuyse, do you trust him?.
一个你认识不过几小时的人? yes.
A man you've barely known a few hours?.
而我却要怀疑一个跟了我一辈子的人 yet, I'm supposed to doubt a man I've known a lifetime.
即使这个人为我们牺牲过一切 Who sacrificed everything for us.
如果信任是问题关键 If trust is the issue...
那可能该怀疑我的判断力 perhaps it is my judgement which is in doubt.
如果我们让自己陷入互不信任 If we let ourselves be tainted by distrust...
博萨的诡计就会得逞·我们正中下怀 Botha's tactics will succeed. We play into his hands.
距离博萨总统告诉议会有安全漏洞还不到之24小时 The bombing came less than 24 hours after President Botha told parliament...
爆炸就发生了 that security forces had uncovered a terrorist cell in Natal...
还抓到了23 个嫌犯 and arrested 23 suspected insurgents.
我们了解到两个恐怖分子跑掉了 We understand that two of the terrorists evaded capture.
安全部门正在斯瓦特区域极力搜捕 Security Forces have stepped up their search in the Soweto area.
进来 Get in here.
我回来啦，马瑞·有人在家吗? I'm home, Marie. Anyone home?.
目标确认·明晚12 点 Target is confirmed. Tomorrow at twelve p. m.
好的 Sure.
今天南非发生了流血事件 And the bloodshed in South Africa today...
在鲁德堡德，约翰内斯堡附近 after a bomb exploded outside a shopping centre...
一个商场外面发生爆炸 in Roodeport, near Johannesburg.
4 名市民丧生，还有18 名受伤 Four civilians were killed and 1 8 others injured.
发言人声称目标是附近的一家银行 A spokesman claimed that the target was a nearby bank.
但他拒绝透露爆炸案一再发生的原因 He declined to give details on the operational difficulties...
他们的行动有什么难点 which caused the explosion.
你就这样为你那蛮不讲理的爆炸 Is that how you justify your campaign of indiscriminate bombings...
还有对无辜群众迫害辩解? the killing of innocent civilians?.
我们绝没想杀害群众 We have never supported the killing of civilians.
还有那些被你的水雷和炸弹残害和杀戮的妇女孩子 Tell that to the women and children that you maim and kill...
以及他们的亲人 with your limpet bombs and your pipe bombs.
那就说说这些吧 Or are dead children legitimate collateral damage...
为了加快你的恐怖主义步伐? to promote your cycle of terror?.
我能给你提供死去孩子的所有信息，教授 I can quote you chapter and verse on dead children, Professor.
姓名·年龄还有生日包括我的儿子 Names, ages and dates, my son included.
先生们，该休息了 I think a break is in order, gentlemen.
南非国民大会的一贯政策是 ANC policy is, and always has been...
只有军方和经济·要害才是合法目标 that only military and economic targets are legitimate.
如果这里所见所闻都这么荒谬 If it smells like crap and it sounds like crap...
那我们达成一致的机会·是零 chances are, it is crap.
我不止一次 Not once have I tried to justify...
试著为南非保安部队的荒谬行径辩护 the excesses of the South African Security Forces.
然而，你们却执意用这些装腔作势的教条糊弄我 yet, you persist in spouting this pre-digested dogma at me.
可能他们认为说的次数足够多，我们就买账了 Maybe they think if they say it enough times, we'll buy it.
确实进展不大，那么我们要么继续 · This really is not productive, so either we move on....
鲁德堡德爆炸案的发生绝不是偶然 The timing, of the Roodeport bomb isn't coincidental.
鲁萨卡授权的 Lusaka authorised it...
在了解我们会议所有进展的情况下 in the full knowledge of our meetings.
很老套的恐怖主义把戏 It's the old terror tactic...
一旦谈判开始，就会上演 once the talking starts, step up the violence.
如果你认为那会让你 If you think that's going to strengthen your hand...
在和政府谈判时更有胜算 in any negotiations with the Government...
那你只能见证我们谈判以失败告终 you've seen to it that all chance of that is off the table.
恕我直言 Frankly...
谈判到此为止 so are these talks.
-是时候加点火候了·-没问题 - Time to turn up the heat. - Alright.
你好啊，曼德拉先生·请坐 Hello, Mr Mandela. Please.
我们来谈谈鲁德堡德的事吧 Let's talk about Roodeport.
不用说 It needed saying.
我们根本没说服他们 There was no getting round it.
也许吧 Perhaps.
但是，把一个逼太急的话 But, box a man into a corner and...
总统快没耐心了，曼德拉先生 The President is running out of patience, Mr Mandela.
要么，你公开告发共产党和南非国民大会勾结 Either, you denounce the communist links with the ANC...
谴责暴力 condemn the violence....
要么，恕我直言，我跟你?无话可说了 or, frankly, you and l?. We have nothing further to discuss.
党政治运动被迫转为地下行动之时 When political movements are forced underground...
他们已经不可避免地就走到一起了 they inevitably are thrown together...
还有，没人会向共同的敌人屈服 and, no man of honour would desert a lifelong friend...
而放弃一个永久的伙伴 at the request of a common enemy.
先生们，让我们单独待会 Gentlemen, excuse us.
不是只有你会玩这种把戏，曼德拉先生 you're not the only game in town, Mr Mandela.
你还不明白吗? Don't you see?.
这是你重回初衷的好机会 This is your chance to seize the initiative.
南非国民大会认为发动恐怖袭击会增强他们的实力 The ANC think they can bomb their way into power...
但你只要说几句话，谴责他们的暴力 but a few words from you, condemning the violence...
就不仅能让你自己重获自由 will not only secure your freedom...
还能确保 but will ensure that you alone...
你能和政府谈判的唯一人选 will be the man the Government deals with.
你，也只有你，能带我们走出这个僵局 you, alone, can lead us all out of this impasse.
你这么多年的牺牲连这点权利都不能带给你吗? Haven't your years of sacrifice earned you that right?.
情况就是这样 This is the situation.
所有南非国民大会发起的爆炸案 All ANC bombing operations...
都是在鲁萨卡政坛一手操控下进行的 fall under the command and control structure in Lusaka.
但是，有一些干部，认为暴力是唯一的方法 But, some of our cadres, believing force to be the only way...
有时候会擅自行动 sometimes act without authority.
这样行动会被扭曲 Operations can get bungled.
无辜的民众 Innocent people...
惨遭杀害 get killed.
但是，我说过 But, you have my word...
我会尽一切所能 that I will do everything in my power...
保证平民不再因我们彼此缺乏信任而受到牵连 to ensure that civilians no longer suffer from our inadequacies.
你是在说你控制不了你们叛军队伍中的 Are you telling us that you are unable to control some of your...
一些人是吗，贝提先生? renegade cadres, Mr Mbeki?.
教授，如果你了解我们真正的处境的话 If you know the truth of our situation, Professor...
你会看到暴力问题- you will see that the issue of violence...
跟我们正努力解决的其他难题是联系在一起的，这无法改变 is irrevocably connected to the other issues we wrestle with.
只有我们进入真正的民主进程 Only when we can participate in a truly democratic process...
我们的武装斗争才会成为过去 will our armed struggle become obsolete.
只有到那个时候，我们之间的冲突才会划上句点 Only then will the conflict between us end.
-你睡得怎样? -不错，你呢? - How did you sleep?. - Not too bad. you?.
很好，除了做了几个跟律师有关的恶梦 Alright, except for terrible dreams about lawyers.
哦，没错·那是恶梦 Oh, yes. That is a nightmare.
嗯，无论如何，撒切尔夫人现在在莫斯科 So, anyway, Thatcher is in Moscow...
红场上的群众都在她四周，将她团团围住 the crowds in Red Square are all over her, mobbing her...
那些称赞全都开始让她觉得忐忑不安 She's getting quite queasy with all this adulation...
因此，她对她的翻译人员说，'我不是共产党，你知道吗?" so, she says to her interpreter, 'm not a communist, you know?. '
然而，他们吼著回答说，'我们也不是' And, they shout back, either are we!'
我来这儿本是相信鲁德堡德发生的事情己经打乱了一切 I came here believing what happened at Roodeport had derailed everything...
你改变了那种想法 you changed that.
你在房间说的话不会传到别人耳朵里 What you said in that room will go no further.
-祝你一路顺风，维利 -我能对你说吗 - Safe home, Willie. - May I tell you....
你儿子的事情 我深感遗憾 how truly sorry I am about your son.
Thank you.
塔布? Thabo?.
离开这条路 Come off the road.
去机场的路有事故发生 There was an incident on the way from the airport.
他们不是安全人员 They were not security agents.
你们会谈的消息已经泄露了 Word is out about your talks.
一些好战分子将不择手段来阻止他们 Some of the militants will use any tactics to halt them.
20 年来我们说只有武力才能制服敌人 For two decades we've said only force will crush the enemy.
然而现在我们不是付诸于武力，反而倡导和谈 Instead of force, we now preach talks.
他们把这视作背叛 They see that as a betrayal.
你在暴力问题上敦促他的时候 And when you pressed him on the violence issue...
有承认现在攻击平民有得到南非国民大会最高指挥部的认可吗？ did he admit the ANC high command now sanction civilian targets?.
他跟起初说的一样 He made the same point he has made from the beginning...
停止暴力袭击 cessation of violence...
取决于政府是否承诺推行民主进程 is contingent on the Government committing to a democratic process.
我告诉也不停止暴力，无可能性而言? you told him there can be no question of that while the violence continues?.
告诉我，博士，要是他们同意 Tell me, Doctor, should they agree to...
放弃武装斗争跟政府进行谈判 give up the armed struggle and negotiate with the government...
你会给他们什么作为回报? what would you give them in return?.
你要是不拿些方案到桌上是没法进行谈判的 you cannot go into negotiation without bringing something to the table.
但你却把我两手空空地派去 yet you send me in empty handed.
我要是空手而归，那就不要感到惊讶 Don't be surprised if I come back empty handed.
你没有权进行谈判，教授 you are not empowered to negotiate, Professor.
你错了·博士·谈话并不容易 you're wrong. Doctor. Talk is not cheap.
我们剩下的就只有这些 It's all we have left.
爱斯特海泽先生的观点是 Mr Esterhuyse takes the view that...
在正式谈判开始前 before formal negotiations can take place...
双方都必须做出让步 concessions, must be made on both sides.
如果我们示意释放曼德拉 If we make a gesture by releasing Mandela...
我说过作出妥协释放曼德拉没的谈 I said nothing about making concessions to Mandela's freedom.
这再也不是政治存续的问题了，长官 This is no longer a matter of political survival, sir.
你为我们争取时间的政策己经制造了一个 your policy of buying us time has created a...
一个不确定的真空状态，这只会助长暴力事件 a vacuum of uncertainty that is only fuelling the violence.
你知道我在想什么吗? you know what I think?.
这是关于你自身存亡的问题，遮住你可怜的屁股 This is about your own survival, covering your own sorry arse.
如果是你主动跟南非国民大会进行接洽 · If you are seen to take the initiative with the ANC...
邢么你会名垂青史·你就是那个拥有卓越的政治才能和眼光 history will always acknowledge it was you who had the statesmanship...
将这个国家从中战的边缘拯救回来的伟人 and vision to pull this country back, from the brink of civil war.
就凭你一个人就避免了一场灾祸 you alone averted that catastrophe.
历史也可能会说我见风使舵得太快了 History might also say I took my hand off the tiller too soon.
-我现在放曼德拉自由·就放弃了我们的王牌 I give way on Mandela's freedom now, I give away our trump card.
他跟其他人一样 He's a man like any other.
得到的越多，要的就越多 The more he gets of it, the more he'll want it.
曼德拉是关键所在 Mandela is the key.
-今天去哪里?-给你一个惊喜 - Where to today?. - A surprise.
控制塔，确认目标到达 Control, confirm subject arrival.
一切顺利，没有问题 Everything is alright, no problems.
我希望你会喜欢你的新宿舍，曼德拉先生? I hope you like your new quarters, Mr Mandela?.
这是斯沃特准尉 This is Warrant Officer Swart.
他会照顾你的·为你做饭，干其他活 He'll look after you. Do your cooking and so on.
我们之前在罗宾岛见过 We've met before, at Robben lsland.
我以前经常载你去采石场 I used to drive you to the quarry.
我希望你做厨师比做司机更出色 I hope you are a better cook than you were a driver.
带他去参观一圈·我会把你安顿下来的 Give him the tour. I'll leave you to settle in.
这有 3 间卧室·这是最大的一间 There's three bedrooms. This is the largest.
我确信你会觉得这张床比你睡惯了的那张更舒服 I'm sure you'll find the bed more comfortable than you're used to.
会议推迟了教授 The departmental conference is postponed, professor.
我们都很清楚英国现在发生了什么 We know exactly what's going on in the UK...
就是你和那个南非国民大会暴徒教授之间的事 between you and the ANC thugs professor.
下次行动之前仔细考虑清楚或者学会怎么睁著眼睡觉 Think carefully before going next time or learn to sleep with your eyes open.
我是迈克、杨·请留下口讯 This is Michael young. Please leave a message.
我是爱斯特海泽 This is Esterhuyse.
我建议 I suggest...
你尽可能快地确定下次会议的时间 that you make a date for the next meeting as soon as possible.
-我想你 -很高兴看见你回来 - I missed you. - It's nice to see you back.
有金兰花·还有三色紫罗兰 Marigolds. Pansies.
这棵种错地方丁·它需要更多阳光 This one is in the wrong place. It needs more light.
你挑个地方·我去拿铲子 you pick a spot. I'll fetch a shovel.
总统先生? Mr President?.
总统先生，你还好吧? Mr President, are you alright?.
快叫救护车 We need an ambulance now.
嘿，嘿，好捧哦 Hip, hip, hooray!
拜拜，塔塔 Bye bye, Tata.
我亲爱的朋友 My dear friend.
以最乐观的方面来看 博萨以为可以用表面堂皇的牢笼来诱使我投降 At best, Botha regarded my gilded cage as a way to seduce me into submission.
但是我花了20 年时间来为这一刻作准备 But I have had twenty years to prepare me for this moment.
跟博纳德谈判是个高风险的策略 Talking to Barnard was a high risk strategy...
但是你可以相信一件事 but you can trust in one thing.
除了促进民主进程以使南非国民大会获得民主权利以外 That I am not negotiating terms with the government...
我是不会和政府进行谈判的 but facilitating the process for the ANC to do so.
很明显，你和我远非他们现在能离间的 Surely, you and I have come too far to let them divide us now.
新任总统厂FW, 德.克里克的选举 The election of the new State President F. W. De Klerk...
已经在全国范围内引发了一波暴力袭击 has sparked a wave of violence across the country.
他承诺进行改革很具敏感性 And sensitivity about his commitment to reform...
这似乎正在助长暴力行为 seems to be fuelling the violence.
德，克里克先生在民族党的权利问题上所持的立场 Mr De Klerk's position to the right of the National Party...
已经让一些观察者质疑他力求改变的野心 have left some observers to question his appetite for change.
博萨的错误在于他过于依赖安全机构 Botha's mistake was his reliance on his security apparatus...
而没有保护他在议会中的权力基础 at the expense of protecting his power base in Parliament.
我必须告诉你，我是不会重蹈覆辙的 I must tell you, that is a mistake I do not intend to repeat.
我的错误是接受了他的计划，死抱著权利不放 My mistake was accommodating his plan to try and divide Mandela...
徒劳地试图离间曼德拉和南非国民大会 from the ANC in a futile attempt to cling on to power.
我和曼德拉先生的讨论让我确信 My discussions with Mr Mandela have convinced me that the only way...
解决问题的唯一途径就是趁一切都还未失掉之前 of doing that now is to give some of it away and negotiate.
放弃一些东西，展开谈判 Before it's taken from us.
你耽搁的时间够久了，博士 you've been detained long enough, Doctor.
先生们，我们能开始了吗? Gentlemen, shall we?.
帮我们结束种族隔离 Help us end Apartheid now!
我不相信我们把他当做是改革的救星 I doubt we're looking at the Messiah of change.
德·克里克一生都在为种族隔离作辩护 De Klerk is a life long apologist for apartheid.
大概正因如此，他的党派才会推选他 Presumably that's why his party chose him.
明天出席会议的名单里·我新加了一个人进去 Names for the next meeting. I've added a new one.
-有点把事情搞混了 一威廉，德·克里克? - Mix things up a bit. - Willem De Klerk?.
-是的，是总统的兄弟 -你真是先知先觉啊 - yes, the President's brother. - How prescient of you.
我希望他的耳朵长茬他兄弟的头上 I'm hoping he's got his brother's ear.
他跟FW 不一样，他公开指责种族隔离 Unlike F.W., he's on record condemning apartheid.
是他兄弟禁止他出席怎么办?和爱斯特海泽一样? What if his brother vetoes his attendance?. Along with Esterhuyse?.
爱斯特海泽现在的立场很坚定，没什么能让他离开 Esterhuyse is committed now. Nothing will keep him away.
除非吊销他的护照 Unless his passport is revoked.
这里是爱斯特海泽的家·我们现在不在家 This is the Esterhuyse residence. We're not home right now.
如果你留下口讯·我们会打给你的 If you leave a message. We'll call you back.
你确定也不在大学里吗? And you're sure that he's nowhere in the University?.
我已经给他家里打过电话了 I've tried him at home.
塔布，托尼·阿齐兹·很高兴再见到你们 Thabo. Tony. Aziz. Good to see you again.
-其他人都还没到吗?-他们快到了·快到了 - The others aren't here yet?. - They will be. They will be.
如果他联系你，或是你看见他 If he contacts you, or if you see him...
告诉他尽快给迈克，杨回电话 tell him to call Michael young as soon as possible.
我在电话边等著 I'll be waiting by the phone.
告诉他我现在不能见他 Tell him that I can't see him now.
总统今天-整天都不能见你，博士 The President will be unable to see you today after all, Doctor.
他的日程登记秘书会跟你联系的，先生 His diary secretary will be in touch, sir.
高速公路发生了血腥的连环车祸·在那里被迫停了几个小时 Bloody highway pile-up. Stuck there for hours.
先生们 Gentlemen.
-我是迈克，杨，德·克里克先生 -你好吗? - Michael young, Mr De Klerk. - How do you do?.
威廉，德，克里克，这是记者和政治评论员，塔布、贝提 Willem De Klerk, Journalist and political commentator, Thabo Mbeki.
-很高兴见到你 -荣幸，先生 - Pleased to meet you. - Pleasure, sir.
我们进去吧? Shall we?.
你让我们很担心 you had us worried there.
你没有早点帮我处理掉 you don't get rid of me that easily.
我亲爱的朋友 同志 My dear friend and comrade.
终于收到你的信·我心中的石头终于落地了 I cannot tell you my relief to hear from you at last.
你要是之前就跟我联系的话，我就可以提醒你 Had you contacted me before, I could have warned you...
不单单是你们在和政府谈话 that yours are not the only talks taking place with the Government.
是否释放你也列在了讨论议程的前面 your release is high on the agenda of those discussions.
鉴于新人总统的强硬态度 Given the hard line position of the new State President...
会谈的前景目前必然是悬而未决的 the future of those talks must now hang in the balance.
但说无妨，威利等少数人的权利，就等于白人的权利 Call it what it is, Willie. Minority rights, equals white rights.
换句话说，他们要我们保证 In other words, you want us to ensure...
白人所享有的权利永久不变 the privileges whites enjoy are perpetuated.
团体权利的这个设想旨在团体之间不存在谁统治谁 The idea of group rights is that no group has dominance over another.
无论是白人还是黑人 White or black.
你所讲的无种族区分的信条是否就是这些呢? Isn't that what your non-racial credo is all about?.
但是没有那个做保证 But without assurance of that...
总统绝不会到谈判桌上来的 the President will never come to the negotiating table.
不是这样玛，威廉? Is that not so, Willem?.
这不该我来说，教授 That's not for me to say, Professor.
德·克里克兄弟不会放弃太多东西的 De Klerk's brother doesn't give much away.
他频繁地表明他不是自己兄弟的守护人 He frequently points out he's not his brother's keeper.
他仅仅是到桌上来插-脚，替他争取时间罢了 He barely got his feet under the table, give him time.
时间才是敌人 Time is the enemy.
他耽误一天，就又离血腥的叛乱进了一步 Every day he procrastinates, is one closer to bloody insurrection.
博纳德对他是什么看法? What is Barnard's sense of him?.
博纳德不像以前那样那么容易进入总统办公室了 Barnard's access to the President's office is not what it used to be.
我们现在必须依靠他的兄弟了 We must rely on his brother for that now.
我想他们会讨论你对今天的印象如何，威廉? I thought we might discuss your impressions of the day, Willem?.
我房间有些超棒的白兰地 I've some excellent brandy in my room.
或许，另找个晚上吧 Another night, perhaps.
我亲爱的朋友 My dear friend...
我们的斗争已经到了风口浪尖的时刻了·我们的国家也是 our struggle is now at a tipping point, as is our country.
我们必须试图让德·克里克和他的政府相信 We must try and convince De Klerk and his government...
白人并不畏惧我们 that the whites have nothing to fear from us.
支配著我们的不是报复，而是渴望和谐共处的心 It is not revenge that governs us, but reconciliation.
我们必须用尽一切可以使用的手段让他明白 We must use every method open to us to make him understand...
他如果不立即行动起来的话，我们无法履行承诺 that unless he acts soon, we cannot deliver.
他还在等什么? What is he waiting for?.
等到他动起来，还得要多少个星期，多少个月啊? How many more weeks, how many more months until he acts?.
他在曼德拉问题上的立场又是什么? 难道他看不见把他关得越久 And where is he on Mandela?. Can he not see the longer he keeps him in prison...
他就要花越多的时间去控制暴徒统治吗? the more time he is giving for mob rule to take hold?.
完全正确 Exactly!
我没有你要找的答案，贝提先生 I do not have the answers you're looking for, Mr Mbeki.
我兄弟从来都不相信我在政府政策上的意见 My brother is not in the habit of confiding in me about Government policy.
或者别的人他也不信，似乎是这样 Or anyone else, it seems.
是的 yes.
是的，我非常明白·你真的确信吗? yes, I understand well. Are you absolutely sure?.
我们不能那样做 We can't put it like that.
没错，这是很重要，但也是在浪费时间 yes, it's important, but it's a waste of time.
抱歉·我刚没找著 I apologise. I lost track of...
那我们现在回到昨天的重要事项上来，好吗? Shall we start by returning to the outstanding items from yesterday?.
我想·你们会否介意，道歉? I wonder... Do you mind, I'm sorry?.
我代表我兄弟阐明几个议题 On behalf of my brother, I have some issues for clarification.
如果你们容许的话 If you will bear with me.
第一 One...
何时南非国民大会才有可能举行对话 when would it be possible for the ANC to embark on talks...
商议如何开展同政府的正式谈判? about how to progress formal negotiations with the Government?.
第二 Two.
你们举行对话的前提条件是什么 What would your preconditions be to such talks...
还有第三·什么样的议程你们才会接受? and, three... what agenda would be acceptable to you?.
你可以-告诉总统 you can... tell the President...
我方没有任何先决条件 there will be no preconditions on our side....
我们让他来决定会议的议程 and we leave it to him to determine the agenda.
至于时机 As for timing...
他什么时候准备好，我们就什么时候准备好 we are ready when he is.
那么你们在停火问题上的立场是什么? And your position on the cease fire of violence?.
谈判开始 We would order that all violence be suspended...
我们可以下令停止一切暴力行动 while negotiations take place.
达成新宪法 When a new constitution has been agreed...
我们就会下令 we will give the instruction that the armed struggle...
取消武装斗争 is to be abandoned.
奥利弗 Oliver.
塔布 Thabo.
你能帮我念一下这个吗，麻烦了? Would you read this for me, please?.
"尽管这些年来我们一直分离 " "Although we have been apart all these years..."
但在我的脑海里 It's as if I've been conducting a lifelong conversation...
似乎一生都在与你交谈 with you in my head.
我现在所祈祷的，就是你能康复起来，如系天意 All I pray now, is that you recover so, God willing...
我们就能面对面地继续交谈了 we can continue it face to face.
至于我的自由 As for my freedom...
都是次要的，直到你再次变得强壮起来 it is a secondary matter until you are strong again.
直到所有被拘禁的人都获得了自由 And, until all those imprisoned have won theirs.
我一走是最后一个得到自由的人 I must be the last to gain his liberty.
他没有说名字，更不用说答话了 He wouldn't give a name, much less take no for an answer.
我是爱斯特海泽 Esterhuyse.
我想通常人们是不是都爱拿天气来说事儿? I suppose the weather's the usual crap?.
你打电话来就是要讨论这个? Is that what you called to discuss?.
那边儿是什么时候了? What time is it over there?.
-中午 -打开你的电视·你那边的时间是下午两点 - Noon. - Turn on your TV. 2 pm, your time.
现在，在我们等待历史性演说来临的时候 Now, as we wait for what's been billed as an historic address.
让我们回顾一下过去几个月发生的重大事件吧 Let's reflect on the momentous events of the past few months.
柏林墙倒塌，冷战结束 The tearing down of the Berlin Wall and the end of the Cold War.
但是，南非却拥有了太多虚幻的希望 But, South Africa has had many false dawns.
太多的讲演做出了太多的承诺·但真正兑现的寥寥无几 So many speeches which have promised so much, yet delivered so little.
现在德，克里克总统由其内阁成员陪同 Here now is President De Klerk flanked by his cabinet.
当他步向讲台时，所有南非人民 As he makes his way to the podium, all of South Africa...
事实上全世界，都屏住了呼吸 and indeed the world, holds it's breath.
政府己决定立即无条件 My Government has taken the decision to immediately and unconditionally...
释放尼尔森，曼德拉先生 release Mr Nelson Mandela.
我也已下令立即解除 I've also instructed that the prohibition...
对南非国民大会，泛非大会 of the African National Congress the Pan African Congress...
以及南非共产党的禁令 and the South African Communist Party be immediately lifted.
谈判的时刻已经来临 The time has come to negotiate.
百万南非人民的希望 The hopes of millions of South Africans...
都将汇聚在这一进程之中 will be centred on that process.
我们决不能畏缩·我们不怕失败 We must not falter. We dare not fail.
谢谢你们 Thank you.
我们现在就去维克多维斯特监狱，曼德拉先生就在那里 We go now to Victor Verster Prison, where Mr Mandela....
那个被囚禁了近30年的人 the man who's been imprisoned for nearly three decades...
现年己72岁了，将首次 72 years old, will be appearing in public...
出现在大众的面前，很快 for the first time, any moment now.
国际媒体进驻门外 International media perched.
群众一片欢呼 The crowd getting excited.
他来了 That's him.
那就是曼德拉先生·尼尔森、曼德拉·一个自由的人 And there is Mister Mandela. Nelson Mandela. A free man.
踏出了迈进新南非的第一步 Taking his first steps into a new South Africa.
维尼，曼德拉夫人伴随其左右向群众挥手致意 Mrs Winnie Mandela next to him waving to the crowds.
尼尔森，曼德拉先生向群众敬礼 And a salute from Mr Nelson Mandela.
他的妻子正在迎接今日在此等候多时的人们 His wife greeting the people who have been waiting for so long for this day.
全世界都等著看这个男人 This is the man that the world's been waiting to see.
这是他27年来首次出现在公众面前 His first public appearance in 27 years.
这一天，对地而言，也是等候良久了 The day for which he too, has waited so long.
我们亏欠他的实在太多 We owe you so much more.
这迫使一个伟人让自己变得渺小无形 It takes a big man to make himself invisible.
谢谢你 Thank you.
谢谢你·迈克·谢谢你 Thank you. Michael. Thank you.
请保重 Stay safe.
还有你 And you...
同志 comrade.